This is not a nice post. But, learn from my grievances. I am steamed with ContractorTalk.com. Never have I met such unprofessional, backward, good ol' boy mentality contractors that live in plastic bubbles. Don't go there, as you'll be told by a lot of unprofessional folks WRONG information. These are people that believe global warming doesn't exist, and their most famous argument "I've been working with building for 30 years, and we know better than you about building" is meritless, they only look at bottom line dollar figures, and call me a zealot because I like SIPs. They try to call you names like hippy, tree hugger because you want to see change in the industry. When all they are doing is covering up their ignorance and closemindedness with name-calling and irrational arguments.
Never have I been treated so poorly by a company site. I am very level headed and don't name call, but I was basically kicked off for having such progressive views in building. These guys will try to talk homebuilders out of building green because they don't understand these green concepts or they will say they'll do it cheaper going stick built. It is a very very closed minded, conservative way of living, which I highly disapprove of. It's either take the bus or stay behind, and there's a big ass group of them back there picking their teeth and holding their precious dollars until their hands bleed.... MORE HERE
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This is a sad story, but unfortunately wide spread in North America.
A very famous person said once: "The greatest enemy of human kind is IGNORANCE!"
They are right. Some individuals do not like to learn new ways, others see new technologies as a threat, but the bottom line is, that the whole housing industry adapted to a religion called "stick-built." Just check the books that are available on this subject, as well as the schools teaching new designers, architects, and engineers these old technologies. Just look how high the percentage is in the building supply industry complimenting the stick-built technology. Each one of the suppliers would like to keep it this way, because this is where the most money can be generated, at the least effort.
The fact is that the stick-built technology is really out-dated, but to admit that, would mean that we have been using an obsolete technology. In every area of industry and science, technologies have incredible advanced over the last 50 years. If it is electronics, computers, medicine, cars, quantum physics, and the list goes on. In stick-built we still cut wood on the site and nail it together piece by piece under any weather condition ......... just as they did 50 years ago. The only difference is that now they have 'power tools' to speed up the work. Did this improve the technic and quality? No, I don't think so. Faster does not mean better.
If you talk GREEN, they call you a Tree Hugger, or a member of the Green Party. Is it worthwhile to get some common sense into these "ol' fellows"? Absolutely! But if they will not listen, don't waist your time. Things are changing dramatically on this earth, and we are all a part of it. We certainly live in an exciting time to move forward in harmony with this planet ...... the least we could do is to 'improve' ourselves, and the way we live.
Opportunity?
Hey Myleenjan, now that they've come back to make ammends, I'm remembering that you told me you wanted to teach a course in green building-- could these guys be your first students? I'm sure they know lots about the nuts and bolts of conventional building, but maybe they could use green building as a competitive advantage and to drive growth while the rest of the market is slumping...
- maxmsf
Can't teach an old dog ...
I'm sorry that they were so closed minded. My last job was with a SIP manufacturer and I had people hang up on me if I used the word green. I had to sell a product without even telling people the best benefits sometimes. The way I see it, sometimes an old dog doesn't want to learn a new trick. Builders want to make money. So if SIPs cost $1.00 more a SF (I really don't know the actual cost difference) them why wouldn't the builder want that dollar? They are just afraid of the new and unknown and I comend you for trying to spread the knowledge!!!
Cardinal Building Systems, Inc.
Building Efficiently for Energy Savings
Wow, thanks guys....
Sometimes it's tough being a pioneer or modernist, and it's nice to hear that I'm not the only person with some sense :-). Thanks for your post, I really hope to make a difference with my blog and some constant endorsement.
Max, yeah, that's a very productive solution that I'd be willing to do. Since I'm a Tech Writer, I do have experience teaching people tech stuff (using the written word, though). Let me know if you see a good opportunity. :-) Since I want to stay unbiased, I try to give my advise/findings through my blog. I've had very positive response, so I'm really not all that down about these fools! But, it's great to vent.
Cardinal Buildings, I have actually done a cost analysis on Sticks vs. SIPs, and here's a snippet:
Q: Did you get quotes on what the cost difference was between traditional framing and SIPs?
A: Yes, we certainly did a cost analysis, and basically, 2x4 or 2x6 stick built wood framing costs approximately $5.50-$6.50/sq ft for labor+material versus SIPs that would cost about $9-10/sq ft. HOWEVER, if you were to at best save 50-70% on your cooling costs, through time, SIPs pay themselves off and are cheaper to maintain, as well as extremely energy efficient. Basically, much of green building is a higher upfront cost, but cheaper in the long run in use and maintenance. Besides, we all need to think about global warming and our planet! :-) When deciding on a getting a SIP home, you are investing in more than just your house value, but in a legacy home that will last forever and be cheaper to maintain for years to come.
Here's an example:
Let's say for a 2500 sf home, it costs you $13,750 to stick build (using $5.50/sf calculation), but $25,000 to use SIPs (using $10/sf calculation).
And for this same home, averaged out throughout the year, you pay a $300/mo for electric or $3600/year with a stick built vs. $75/mo or $900/year with SIP frame.
In energy costs, you saved $2700/year on your electric bill. The additional $11,250 you paid to get SIP frame (25,000 minus 13, 750) would be paid off in a little over 4 years (11,250 / $2700 = 4.16 years). This is what I mean that they will pay themselves back in less than 5 years, and it's definitely worth it to take a look. UPDATE: You actually save more if you are paying your energy savings towards your mortgage, so you can pay back the difference faster!
Also, according to the class, stick frame will be considered obsolete and may be out of code in the very near future, as energy prices soar to such a high, stick built will be considered too energy inefficient to build and maintain. Realtors are even predicting that house values will be directly proportionate to your home's energy efficiency because energy is such a precious resource and will play a much larger part in home prices. Who will want to buy a cheaper home if it will cost you very much money to upkeep and maintain? If you have that mindset, then it's not really being frugal if you think about it!
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http://sjodindreamhome.blogspot.com
The Side That's Always Greener....